Big Blue Wave...Fostering a Culture of Life in Canada

Big Blue Wave...Fostering a Culture of Life in Canada
Hi, please check out my website, Big Blue Wave: http://www.bigbluewave.ca Please visit the message board and blog. God Bless.

I had a quick peak. But not much time last night. Seems I may have to set you straight on your opinion of the CHP :lol:

Could you explain to me what you mean by the CHP not recognizing a natural law?

Sorry for not having gotten back to you. By that I mean that the Christian Heritage Party ONLY recognizes the Bible as the source of morality. Of course I am in favour of a bible-based morality. But many people throughout the ages have attained the basics of bible morality without having the bible. This is the core raison d'etre of the CHP-- to be guided by the Bible-- not human reason. This is the big thing that holds it back, its quest to be a party guided ONLY by Christian Revelation and a party only of Christians.

The Bible is needed to show us what is right and what is wrong. These days, many people, including those in the academic world, find nothing wrong with homosexuality and even pedophilia. A good example is the book "Harmful for Minors" published by the University of Minnesota that advocates pedophilia. I've mention in the International section of a pedophile political party formed in the Netherlands. These are just a few examples that show that human reasoning alone is not sufficient to decide what is right and wrong. As for a party guided only by Christians "holding us back", I have mixed feelings about that. There are some indivuals including myself, who before, wanted the party to compose of all faiths that believe in moral principles according to the Bible. What changed our minds is the controversy concerning the Muslims who killed Christians around the world in connection with those cartoons that the Christians had nothing to do with. We don't want to end up opening up the party to radical Muslims who might want to push Sharia law, instead of going by Bible principles.

These are just a few examples that show that human reasoning alone is not sufficient to decide what is right and wrong. The problem with that argument is that it doesn't stand up to practice. While it *is* true that there are lots of examples of human reasoning gone awry in determining morality, that's problem human reasoning isn't properly used. How many people really sit down and THINK about human morality? Even with something like science, we know that scientists make errors all the time. Yet we still hold the tools of science as generally valid. There aren't just Muslims who follow the natural law. Jews, Sihks, traditional people of all kinds honour rudimentary notions of natural law. That's because natural law *works*.

The problem with that argument is that it doesn't stand up to practice. Oh, but it does. If what you say is true, then the mainstream parties would be supporting moral principles; but they don't; at least not to the degree that they should.

I said it doesn't stand up to practice. What I am saying is that if people did sit down and think about morality, they would get it right a lot more. The fact that people DON'T do that, or do it poorly doesn't mean reason does not work as a means of knowing the moral law.

I said it doesn't stand up to practice. What I am saying is that if people did sit down and think about morality, they would get it right a lot more. The fact that people DON'T do that, or do it poorly doesn't mean reason does not work as a means of knowing the moral law. You are right Epiphany that people don't think about reason. That makes it all the more important to have logical laws that protect all members of society. The problem with what I think you are saying about 'natural law' is that it depends on who it is natural for. To have a defined standard, that doesn't change, makes the standard of right and wrong the same for everyone. An example would be: Christians recognise one man, one woman marriages. Muslims recognise polygamy. Here is an either/or law. Either we accept polygamy as ok or we do not. We cannot have a law saying it's legal for Muslims but not for Christians. Canada has traditionally been based in Judeo-Christian traditions, therefore, we do not recognise polygamy. That's reason! You must have one set of rules. What is the standard we use? Traditionally we have used the Bible. If we are going to switch the standard, will we use the Muslim standard? It's ok to lie as long as it's to an infidel. Does that mean as a Christian I can lie to anyone but a Muslim. What if I don't know the person is a Muslim? Is it ok to lie in court under oath as long as there are no Muslims present? Or is it ok to lie as long as the judge is not Muslim? Logically speaking to live in a country that recognises the rights of all equally we must apply the law equally. Therefore, it makes good sense to say lying is wrong to anybody. The western world has fluorished under the Christian standard of right and wrong. The freest countries in the world are based in the Christian tradition. The countries with the best human rights records are based in Christianity. It makes good sense to stick with what works best. That's logical!!! :D

Hello all I've updated Big Blue Wave with a list of Canadian Message Boards. If you know of any other Canadian online communities that are political/religious oriented and they're not mentioned there, let me know. http://www.bigbluewave.ca

The thing is, reason and logic are the same for everyone one. If polygamy is not morally acceptable, then it's not morally acceptable for a Christian or a Muslim, and there is a valid logical, non-revelation-based reason for that. It's a standard that is part of the traditional Judeo-Christian values.

We both posted at the same time, Epiphany. Don't miss mine which arrived before yours. :D

The thing is, reason and logic are the same for everyone one. If polygamy is not morally acceptable, then it's not morally acceptable for a Christian or a Muslim, and there is a valid logical, non-revelation-based reason for that. It's a standard that is part of the traditional Judeo-Christian values. You haven't responded to the point though. Who defines morally acceptable if you don't have one standard? You have critisized the CHP for not recognising natural law. Natural law has to make allowance for what is natural to the culture of each person. If you have one standard...... the Bible. Then everyone knows what is right and what is wrong in Canada. Thus the CHP is not relying on the whims of people but recognising that defined standard. That is logical! Thinking that you are going to get agreement from all our multi cultural society is a utopian dream.

It's not "who" defines it. You're again falling into the assumption that reasoning is not a proper tool. No matter who uses it *properly* reason will always lead to the same conclusion. "Natural law" does not make allowance for what is natural to each culture. That's the whole point of natural law. It's a universal morality that exists regardless of culture. Natural law is one standard. It's the lack of proper reasoning that translates into many standards. You can get one standard from a number of religions, so long as they are practiced in their traditional format, precisely because even though some religions are false, the natural law informs them to one degree or another. That's why most traditional religions preach against fornication, divorce, abortion, homosexual acts, etc. In a multicultural society, where people are of many religions, you can't rely on the Bible. Individuals have the right to have a say in their government, and not be ruled by religious doctrine that they do not hold to be true. However, natural law is accesible to all people, because it's based on one's own reasoning. Anyone with an average intelligence can reason.

I see what you mean epiphany , but what happens if different groups can't agree on the morality of a particular issue such as polygamy as an example which group would be right and which would be wrong?How do you determine it , is it the larger group who is right?

View Full Version: Big Blue Wave...Fostering a Culture of Life in Canada