Bravda
I'm glad to find this place on this grey Saturday: kind of uplifting! I'm from another forumer board called Bravda. Bravda is a News & Politics forum run by Canadians. Our main interests lie in world events and pro-peace action. From the general to the particulars, we also have a Canadian section where our politics are discussed, as well as a French section for those who prefer to debate à la française. You are all welcome to join and I hope we can exchange interesting views on the matters that concerns us all.

Welcome to Canadian Viewpont QuietNoise. :D Do you have an actual link to post here? We would love to see it.

Sorry about that! Here's the link: forumer.com>Bravda! Thanks, Jemdude!

I popped in a few moments ago, and while I am opposed to aggressive war, I am a very strong proponent of the idea that the best way to prevent war, is to be very well prepared for it. Moreover, i also believe that there are times when interventions are needed either as a pre-emptive strike against someone who poses a clear and present danger to you, or a regime that is slaughtering citizens a-la-genocide.

Welcome, Quiet Noise. cheers

I really think each particular situation calls for different actions , you can't treat every crisis the same as another,sometimes war is the only option,other times diplomacy works.

No diplomacy would have worked with Hitler.... and alas, none will be with Ahmedinejad, either...

The war party has managed to demonize Iran and its leader the same way they did with Irak and Saddam: the sheeple is still in deep slumber and just about to follow, like a bunch of lemmings and stumble off the cliff into the abyss. The reality is that the war party has been sinking deep in the quagmire they've dug for themselves in Irak and are unable to get out of it. They're trying to get international support supposedly for marching on to Iran when in reality, they need that support to get their sorry derrières out of Irak. I'm surprised that a christian board would choose war above all else. Tsk tsk... P.s.: are you evangelists, by any chance???

Chew on this : NUCLEAR WAR-FEAR Iran letter precursor to war? Analysts say it follows Muhammad's instructions for jihad -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted: May 11, 2006 1:00 a.m. Eastern © 2006 WorldNetDaily.com Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (courtesy Radio Netherlands) Some Middle East observers believe Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's letter to President Bush could be a precursor to war, based on a traditional Muslim pattern of offering acceptance of Islam before establishing it by force. Robert Spencer, editor of Jihad Watch, says Ahmadinejad appears to be following the teachings of Muhammad, who gave specific instructions to followers as they engage in "holy war" against "those who disbelieve in Allah." In a Hadith, regarded by Muslims as sacred writings about Muhammad, the Islamic prophet says a series of offers should be made to "enemies" to embrace Islam, or at least accept Islamic rule, and if they are rejected, "seek Allah's help and fight them." In his letter, Ahmadinejad argues only Islam can "overcome the present problems of the world" and asks Bush, "Will you not accept this invitation? That is, a genuine return to the teachings of prophets, to monotheism and justice, to preserve human dignity and obedience to the Almighty and His prophets? Mr President, History tells us that repressive and cruel governments do not survive." Another observer of Islam, journalist Stephen Adams, said the letter seems to parallel a missive from al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden to Americans prior to the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Interviewed on the Michael Medved radio show yesterday, Adams noted bin Laden stated his grievances against the United States and gave Americans the opportunity to "repent." Based on precedent, Adams continued, he expects the next step will be for Iran to make the invitation public. Then the "crimes" of the U.S. will be published and the grievances will be cited at Friday prayers in mosques. Finally, comes a fatwa, amounting to a declaration of war. Adams, associate editor of Citizen magazine, said it's possible this scenario could unfold in a matter of weeks. In a column for WorldNetDaily, Middle East analyst Laura Mansfield said she believes the letter could be a "last warning." Mansfield says the question must be asked: "Why deliver such a letter when there is little chance it will result in policy changes for either country?" Like Spencer and Adams, she points out: "Islamic theology documents that no attack can be carried out in jihad without first offering the 'unbelievers' the opportunity to 'repent' and accept Islam. Only when that overture is rejected can an attack occur." The Iranian president has made clear, at least to audiences at home, Tehran's ultimate intentions. As WorldNetDaily reported in January, Ahmadinejad told a crowd of theological students in Iran's holy city of Qom that Islam must prepare to rule the world. "We must believe in the fact that Islam is not confined to geographical borders, ethnic groups and nations. It's a universal ideology that leads the world to justice," Ahmadinejad said Jan. 5, according to Mehran Riazaty, a former Iran analyst for the Central Command of the Coalition Forces in Baghdad. Ahmadinejad, who drew global attention for his contention the Holocaust was a "myth," said: "We don't shy away from declaring that Islam is ready to rule the world." Two months earlier, he threatened to "wipe Israel off the map" Riazaty, in a post on the website Regime Change Iran, said the Iranian president emphasized his current theme that the return of the Shiite messiah, the Mahdi, is not far away, and Muslims must prepare for it. According to Shiites, the 12th imam disappeared as a child in the year 941. When he returns, they believe, he will reign on earth for seven years, before bringing about a final judgment and the end of the world. Ahmadinejad is urging Iranians to prepare for the coming of the Mahdi by turning the country into a mighty and advanced Islamic society and by avoiding the corruption and excesses of the West. "We must prepare ourselves to rule the world and the only way to do that is to put forth views on the basis of the Expectation of the Return," Ahmadinejad said. "If we work on the basis of the Expectation of the Return , all the affairs of our nation will be streamlined and the administration of the country will become easier." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do we have to wait until tel Aviv is incinerated before we finally wake up to this psychotic menace? There are some people who simply can't be reasoned with for love or money. Ahmedinejad is one of those. So is Kim Jong-il. I always thought that Kim posed a greater threat to the world than Saddam, and Ahmedinejad is worse than both of them combined. Barring a popular revolt against the Islamofascist regime in Tehran, we will very likely be at war with Iran within two years at the latest...but not before millions of innocent lives are unneccessarily lost. We would not be the ones choosing war, when there is an implacable foe who has already chosen to march down that road. all historical accounts show that Hitler was determined to go to war to achieve his aims. There are accounts that after Munich he went into fitsof rage at Chamberlain for having denied him the chance to crush Czechoslovakia by military force, and was determined that Poland would not be a "bloodless" conquest. Likewise Ahmedinejad's fanaticism, and that of the clerics around him has him determined to destroy Israel, and the rest of the infidels in Islamic style: Either say the Shahada, or die. (Though the jews will only be offered the latter option). Some people are determined to use force to achieve their aims, and the bottom line is, is that if we are not prepared to counter that potential force arrayed against us, at the first sign of weakness or wavering it will be used, and people will needlessly die. If a man sees himself as a part of a messianic destiny, no diplomacy will deter him in any way from moving toward his goal. he will say nice things and accept concessions if it buys him a greater strategic advantage toward his long term goal, but only as a stepping stone. If British and French toops had marched into germany when Hitler sent 10 000 troops in to re-occupy the Rhineland, they'd have finished off Hitler then and there, and there never would have been a second world war, and there would still be a thriving Jewish presence enriching Europe, instead of an Islamofascist cancer eating its way through the very Marrow of the continent. Intervention, or the known firm resolve to take such steps when neccessary saves more lives when up against a megalomaniac who cannot be reasoned with. BTW, Ahmedinejad has been at least as frank as Hitler was about his plans. Why don't westerners believe him? If we refuse to learn from history, we will be condemned to repeat at a high cost reckoned in blood.

Quietnoise, Having said all this, I will post what I believe it will take to achieve peace on earth later hopefully, today. I am preparing to go to church now, and will get back to this later.

Lasting and just peace can only be achieved when goodwill exists between all men.... and until Jesus returns, this will not b the case, we will always have to keep an eye open for the Hitlers Kims, Pots Bin Ladens and Ahmedinejads that come along. As for preventing the situations that permit the rise and assumption of power by such monsters, our governments, and indeed we ourselves need to re-assess attitudes and priorities. Many of the vile dictatorships of the world are produced and propped up by corporations who put together mercenary armies to lead the fight to install the "leaders" who they believe will serve their interests. Look at Sierra Leone, and further back in time, Katanga, and other regimes in Africa. These tyrants were installed, and their muscle paid for by resource conglomerates, such as European diamond and precious metals traders. Look at some of the tyrannies that run Islamic countries: propped up by big oil, and/or western governments propped up by big oil, or communist regimes run by state controlled big oil. How is it, that we, supposedly the most technologically advanced society are completely dependent on oil, and thus finance regimes that would plot to harm us? meanwhile brazil's cars run on sugar ethanol. Monsters like the Saudi Royals, Iran's Mullahs, Venezuela's Chavez and others would find themselves in a much weaker, and therefore much less menacing position than they are currently in. Then we need to look at some other attitudes, such as our carelessness in affluence. When we throw away more than enough food to feed every man, woman and child in the world while most people eat inadequately, or even starve, we help to create the conditions that render people desperate enough to accept tyrannical rule, the evil these regimes commit, and to allow themselves to become the pawns and tools of such evil. Why not offer tax breaks to companies who would ship unsold produce to poor countries or jhomeless shelters instead of schlepping it to the nearest dumpster? I have even heard it said that at a cost of 50 billion dollars, the enormous reserves of water that lie deep beneath the Sahara could be brought to the surface, and provide water for all and sundry in Africa, AND restore this once fertile region to wat it once was. Any one western country could cough up this money and relieve untold suffering. .... for teh price of a few ICBMS, f-18s, or tanks, this could be accomplished.... I believe it is corportations who like prices and profits they way they are are rsponsible for the lack of political will to accomplish this. Imagine what it would do to food prices by eliminating scarcity ! So in short, any effort to prevent war needs to be three pronged, to wit being prepared to act against evil where it arises, and to curb the power of corporations to swing policy contrary to the long and short term interests of humanity as a whole for the sake of their short term profits, and to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ to build the good will needed to achieve peace and a just, humanitarian global society.

Media hide truth: 9/11 was inside job
I agree with you that corporate fascism is invading the world but is only made possible via our leaders' actions and decisions to support the corporations instead of protecting their citizens. To wit, the following article, and angry voices are rising across the land, including Bush's own supporters: Media hide truth: 9/11 was inside job by Kevin Barrett Last Saturday, former Bush administration official Morgan Reynolds drew an enthusiastic capacity crowd to the Wisconsin Historical Society auditorium. It is probably the first time in Historical Society history that a political talk has drawn a full house on a Saturday afternoon at the beginning of final exams. Reynolds, the former director of the Criminal Justice Center at the National Center for Policy Analysis, and the ex-top economist for George W. Bush's Labor Department, charged the Bush administration with gross malfeasance, and proposed the prosecution of top administration officials. Normally, if a prestigious UW alumnus and ex-Bush administration official were to come to the Wisconsin Historical Society to spill the beans about a Bush administration scandal, it would make the news. The local TV stations would cover it, and it would merit front page headlines in The Capital Times and Wisconsin State Journal. Reynolds' indictment of the administration he worked for was a stunning, life-changing event for many of those who witnessed it. As the event's organizer, I have received dozens of e-mails about it from people who were deeply affected. Despite the prestigious speaker and venue, and the gravity of the charges aired, for most Americans indeed most Madisonians the event never happened. Why? Because it was censored, subjected to a total media blackout. Not a word in the State Journal. Not a word in The Capital Times. Not a word on the local TV news. Not a word on local radio news. And, of course, not a word in the national media. Why the blackout? Because Reynolds violated the ultimate U.S. media taboo. He charges the Bush administration with orchestrating the 9/11 attacks as a pretext for launching a preplanned "long war" in the Middle East, rolling back our civil liberties, and massively increasing military spending. When a former Bush administration insider makes such charges, how can the media ignore them? Is Reynolds a lone crank? Hardly. A long list of prominent Americans have spoken out for 9/11 truth: Rev. William Sloane Coffin, Sen. Barbara Boxer, former head of the Star Wars program Col. Robert Bowman, ex-Reagan administration economics guru Paul Craig Roberts, progressive Jewish author-activist Rabbi Michael Lerner, former CIA official Ray McGovern, author-essayist Gore Vidal, and many other respected names from across the political spectrum have gone on the record for 9/11 truth. Are the media ignoring all these people, and dozens more like them, because there is no evidence to support their charges? Hardly. Overwhelming evidence, from the obvious air defense stand-down, to the nonprotection of the president in Florida, to the blatant controlled demolition of World Trade Center building 7, proves that 9/11 was an inside job. As noted philosopher-theologian and 9/11 revisionist historian David Griffin writes: "It is already possible to know, beyond a reasonable doubt, one very important thing: the destruction of the World Trade Center was an inside job, orchestrated by terrorists within our own government." A growing list of scientists has lined up behind BYU physicist Steven Jones and MIT engineer Jeff King in support of Griffin's position, as evidenced by the growth of Scholars for 9/11 Truth (st911.org) and Scientific Professionals Investigating 9/11 (physics911.net). As a Watergate-era graduate of the University of Wisconsin School of Journalism, I was taught that exposing government lies and corruption is the supreme duty of the Fourth Estate. I simply cannot fathom the current situation. I do not understand the 9/11 truth blackout. I wish someone would explain it to me. It is time to break the 9/11 truth blackout. Please put pressure on your local media through letters to the editor, call-ins to talk radio, and phone calls to local and national journalists. And come see Peter Phillips, director of the media watchdog group Project Censored, who will lead a strategy session on breaking the blackout at the upcoming international 9/11 truth conference in Chicago: 9/11: Revealing the Truth, Reclaiming Our Future, to be held June 2-4 at the Embassy Suites Hotel, Chicago-O'Hare Rosemont. Go to Revealing the Truth for more information. The event will feature presentations from dozens of 9/11 truth luminaries, from scientists like Steven Jones to intelligence agency whistle-blowers like David Shayler, and promises to be a historic, watershed event. Be there, or resign yourself to a future of endless war, lost liberty, and a craven media that cannot bring itself to breathe a single word of truth. Source So 911 is what started it all: war against the innocent people of Afghanistan where the US is now in control of the growing opium business; the following war of aggression against Irak based on lies: where are Saddam's WMDs? Hundreds of thousands of innocents have been killed, raped and tortured for a lie and now, Bush is preparing to do the same with Iran, based on his hypnotic lies about nukes when we all know that it's the greenback that is really in jeopardy since Iran has decided to run its Oil Bourse on Euros and Rubbles instead of US dollars. It is you and me, and all other honest people who have to stand up and stop the war machine. These are based on fear but love IS stronger than fear and love is what Christianity is all about. Peace.

I disagree VEHEMENTLY with al this Cindy Sheehanesque nonsense you posted. War AGAINST the innocent people of Afghanistan? Get real!!!!! The Taliban was at war with the innocent people of Afghanistan... What do you call requiring women to cover themselves in Burqas, and if the burqa was not worn properly the woman could be beaten in the street, or hauled off yto the soccer staium to have her brain blown out then and there for the pleasure of the crowd? Here's a link, that is clip from Penn and teller which sums up EXACTLY what I think of these twits who say 9/11 was an inside job. I will agree with you that corporations and politicains who rely on them for supportof varios kinds do act contrary to the long term interests of all concerned (Except the short term interest of their shareholders) but I don't for a second believe that 9/11 was anything else than what it was. A terrorist attack. I have posted what I believe must be done to achive a lasting and just peace. You have also seen what I have to say about oil. We need to break dependency on fossil fuels from both a geopolitical and an environmental standpoint. But please let stay away from nonsensical large scale conspiracy theories, and address actual situations arising from petty, shortsighted greed. If we are losing liberty, it is because the people themselves aren't paying attention to what's going on. If people in North America had the awareness and commitment to achieving non-violent change as the Poles did under communist rule instead of shutting off their brains and tuning in to Desperate Housewives, American Idol and Survivor, the movers and shakers would not be able to get away with what they do. Democracy is what you make of it. use it or lose it.